Why do you guys think that non-Latin American men have tended to perform relatively poorly for the male cohorts who were born in the 20th century (1901-present), unlike 20th century-born female cohorts so far?

Posted by: @futurist

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Why do you guys think that non-Latin American men have tended to perform relatively poorly for the male cohorts who were born in the 20th century (1901-present), unlike 20th century-born female cohorts so far?

Two world wars might have had something to do with it...

A lot of men old enough to father children in the 1910s died in WWI, but also a lot of men who were born during WWI or the early 1920s died during WWII.

Posted by: @heatwave116

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Posted by: @futurist

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Why do you guys think that non-Latin American men have tended to perform relatively poorly for the male cohorts who were born in the 20th century (1901-present), unlike 20th century-born female cohorts so far?

Two world wars might have had something to do with it...

A lot of men old enough to father children in the 1910s died in WWI, but also a lot of men who were born during WWI or the early 1920s died during WWII.

WWII affected Germans, Slavs, and East Asians most of all. Non-German Westerners weren't that badly affected by World War II, other than Jews, who of course were a small percentage of the total Western population.

And Yes, a lot of men who could have had additional children died in WWI, but the relative non-Latin American male extreme longevity underperformance has been going on for males born during the entire 20th century so far, ever since 1901. Meanwhile, WWI only began in 1914.

What are some examples of SCs who were from small countries and who were both born on the same day, including the same year? I can think of Hilda Grahn (1888-1998) and Teresa Lindahl (1888-1999), who both lived to age 110 and were both Sweden's OLP for a time.

I know about Bob Weighton (1908-2020) and Joan Hocquard (1908-2020), who both shared Britain's OLP title for a time, but Britain is a larger country than what I would prefer for the purposes of my question here.

I noticed that Scandinavian men tend to overperform Scandinavian women. No Scandinavian-born woman has lived beyond her 113th birthday, whereas 10 Scandinavian-born men (including five male Scandinavian emigrants) have died beyond their 110th birthday, with 5 of them living to age 111+ and with 7 of them living to age 110.9+.

Posted by: @futurist

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What are some examples of SCs who were from small countries and who were both born on the same day, including the same year? I can think of Hilda Grahn (1888-1998) and Teresa Lindahl (1888-1999), who both lived to age 110 and were both Sweden's OLP for a time.

I know about Bob Weighton (1908-2020) and Joan Hocquard (1908-2020), who both shared Britain's OLP title for a time, but Britain is a larger country than what I would prefer for the purposes of my question here.

Lina Anundsen and Margit Larsen (b. 12 November 1914) of Norway. 

Thanks!

BTW, off-topic, but did you notice just how strongly Romanian men tend to perform when it comes to extreme longevity (age 108+)?

Does anyone here know if Teofil B. Chudzinski (1849?-1955, age 106?) can be validated? He might have been the WOLM at the time of his death:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/74617501/teofil_b_chudzinski

Teofil Chudzinski was baptized in Neumark, Germany on 15 February, 1849. The baptism record records his DOB as 7 February, 1849, proving his claimed age of 106 years.

Also, Chudzinski was not WOLM, as Walter Theodore Shriner was born on 7 January, 1849 and lived two months longer than Chudzinski.

(Link to baptism)

Posted by: @fish

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Teofil Chudzinski was baptized in Neumark, Germany on 15 February, 1849. The baptism record records his DOB as 7 February, 1849, proving his claimed age of 106 years.

 

Also, Chudzinski was not WOLM, as Walter Theodore Shriner was born on 7 January, 1849 and lived two months longer than Chudzinski.

(Link to baptism)

Excellent! Amazing job, Fish!

BTW, wasn't it myself who researched Shriner's case many years ago?

I find it interesting that the WOLM was born in 1849 for several years, BTW.

@Fish Didn't Mathias Hansen Saether (1848-1957) outlive Mr. Shriner and was also born before him? So, Mr. Shriner was never the WOLM, only the US's OLM.

Has the dispute over Nabi Tajima's birth year (1900 vs. 1901) ever been conclusively resolved?

I wonder if the World Wars are a huge part of the reason as to why exactly Germany has not had another 111+ year-old man (emigrants such as Friedrich Reichenstein excluded) since Hermann Dornemann. (Of course, maybe Gustav Gerneth will qualify. But we still don't know just how old he was for sure and he's not validated yet.) The World Wars were absolutely disastrous for German men. Among the couple of million of German men who were killed in WWI, and the several million German men who were killed in WWII, I suspect that there were at least several German men with SC potential.

Posted by: @futurist

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BTW, apparently based on his WWII draft registration card, Richard Overton (1906-2018) might have been five days older than claimed:

He claimed May 11, 1906 later in life and initially that's what his WWII draft card appears to say as well, but for some reason, the 11 is later replaced with a 6, thus making it May 6, 1906.

Is there a birth record and/or baptismal record, especially an original one, that can help shed some light on this issue? Or perhaps some school census records? I know that Texas has surviving school census records for some counties.

If he was genuinely five days older, his final age would be 112y,235d instead of 112y,230d.

@Mendocino Do you know of any other SCs whose World War II (not World War I) draft registration cards lists a different birthday (not just birth year) relative to what they claimed? I know that Lester Townsend's (1908-2019) World War II draft registration card says March 1908 but without giving a specific date of birth (he himself claimed March 31, 1908 later on in his life).

Quite amazing that Ilie Ciocan just reached age 112! 🙂 He is the first validated Eastern European man to do this. Back when he was 109, I was unsure whether he'd even make it to age 110, and yet he's still alive over two years later and also managed to survive and fully recover from a broken hip at age 111!

What I find interesting is that among the 100 oldest validated Americans ever, only 3 are men, and of these one of them might be displaced from this specific top 100 list in the relatively near future:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_supercentenarians

And of course out of these 3 only 2 are US-born, including the one (Fred Hale) who might be displaced from this list in the relatively near future.

Given just how many validated 114+ year-old women the US had throughout its history, it's honestly a huge shock and surprise that it hasn't had more validated 114+ year-old men yet.

@FinbarrC: "I would agree that anyone who reaches the minimum number of days should be included. It's only a handful of extra cases.

If someone reached 122y 163d, but one leap day more than Calment, I'm sure they would be regarded as sharing the record."

Agreed. BTW, what I find interesting is that Valentino Stella was denied the status of a 111-year-old man due to him dying during a leap year.

@ChrisR: "I’m a full supporter of recording (and also ranking) supercentenarians by days lived.

So if we calculate the minimum number of days one could live to make 110.000, then that seems the fairest guideline for classification."

Would you be willing to use similar criteria to determine who should get credit for living to age 111+, et cetera? For instance, giving Valentino Stella credit for this since he died in a leap year and thus had a final age of 110y,365d instead of 111y,0d?

A question from the 110 Club:

How old do you think the first 125 year old currently is, if alive?

Personally, I think that it could take centuries or more for someone to reach age 125+ without effective anti-aging technology. It's roughly comparable to having another Danish-born man break Christian Mortensen's all-time record for Danish-born men. Theoretically, someone born alive could do it, but the odds are against them. Even Jeanne Calment was roughly comparable to a 112-year-old Danish-born man. And the second-oldest Danish-born man ever was "only" 110, almost 5.5 years younger than Christian Mortensen himself was.

Maybe a successful cure to amyloidosis through gene therapy could allow us to see more 120+ year-olds, but still, reaching age 125+ is really pushing it!

Posted by: @futurist

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Theoretically, someone born alive could do it, but the odds are against them.

I meant to write "someone currently alive", not "someone born alive". The "born" was a typo.

@musicotic One's sex can occasionally be written incorrectly, such as with Carrie Black's 1880 US Census (mistakenly listed as male), Delphia's Welford's elder sister Castoria/Carter (mistakenly listed as male on some of her 1880 documentation), and of course this woman's 1900 US Census (mistakenly listed as male):

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/30998004/clydia-isringhausen

@futurist Right, but the name also doesn't match in either record.

@musicotic Is he listed as Herd Heard in 1894?

And what name is he listed under in 1892?

How consistent are the siblings' and father's name in 1892 and 1894 relative to the 1900 US Census?

Off-topic (I can't post about the news in the relevant sections), but I think that my birthplace was just attacked by Iran:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/beershebas-soroka-hospital-suffers-direct-hit-in-missile-attack/

I think that this is the hospital in Be'ersheba where I was born, though I'll have to double-check by asking my parents again.

@Admin Is there at least any way that I can see the messages that people sent me, even if I won't be able to respond privately? I got a new message and I can't see it at all.

@musicotic Do you think that LQ can validate Charles Edward Graves in the future based on his 1896 Mississippi school census entry? Regretfully, he does not have either a 1900 or a 1910 US Census entry, though his documentation starting from his 1908 marriage record and extending to his WWI draft card and 1920 US Census entry and beyond is all very strong.

Also, one more question for you, @musicotic: Do you agree with the GRG's recent Donald Butler validation? The issue that I see here is that he used different names (Davis Butler and Dorns Butler) in his younger years. On the flip side, though, his birth date (but not quite birth year) on his WWI draft card as Dorns Butler perfectly matches what he himself claimed later on in his life.

Posted by: @futurist

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@musicotic Do you think that LQ can validate Charles Edward Graves in the future based on his 1896 Mississippi school census entry? Regretfully, he does not have either a 1900 or a 1910 US Census entry, though his documentation starting from his 1908 marriage record and extending to his WWI draft card and 1920 US Census entry and beyond is all very strong.

From what I remember of the case, the school census records are quite messy. But the fact that the remainder of the records are consistent is a plus. 

Posted by: @futurist

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Also, one more question for you, @musicotic: Do you agree with the GRG's recent Donald Butler validation? The issue that I see here is that he used different names (Davis Butler and Dorns Butler) in his younger years. On the flip side, though, his birth date (but not quite birth year) on his WWI draft card as Dorns Butler perfectly matches what he himself claimed later on in his life.

I haven't researched this case very closely, but from a cursory look it seems he is a supercentenarian, I'm just not sure there is sufficient evidence to support a high age as 113. I would have to see all the documents to be sure, though.