Posted by: @chrisr

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it appears Georgie Jordan would have been up at number 13 on the all time oldest list, at the time of her death in Feb 1995.

She was 6 days older than Sarah Knauss.

Yes, indeed. Just a shame that this so called organization invents validators and refuses to credit the real researchers. I sent a validation summary to the GRG in 2020. Yet, as always, they employ scientific misconduct in their methodology. Not to speak of Mary Sorenson, whom I researched independently almost ten years ago.

Recently announced validation, retroactively accepted on 28 July 2017:

Anna Wheeler, USA, 5 Mar 1833 - 19 Dec 1943, 110 years and 289 days. (Already LQ-validated.)

Recent validations, accepted on 24, 25, 28, and 29 March 2024:

Emma Robinson, USA, 9 Feb 1914 - Present, 110+ years. (Already LQ-validated.)

Mathilda Kolt, USA, 10 Feb. 1914 - Present, 110+ years. (Already LQ-validated.)

Yoshiko Miwa, USA, 28 Feb. 1914 - Present, 110+ years.

Vince Dransfield, USA, 28 Mar. 1914 - Present, 110+ years.

Recent validation, accepted on 27 March 2024:

Maria Farrugia, MLT, 7 Mar 1912 - Present, 112+ years.

Recently announced validations, retroactively accepted in "August, September, and October 2017":

Cristina Collado, PRI/USA, 6 Nov 1885 - 22 Nov 1998, 113 years and 16 days.

Emilia Hernández de Ramos, PRI, 9 June 1889 - 26 Jan 2001, 111 years and 231 days.

Joseph Rabenda, POL/FRA, 10 Jan 1892 - 19 Feb 2003, 111 years and 40 days.

María Esther Canessa, URY, 1 June 1894 - 1 July 2006, 112 years and 30 days.

Lillian Anderson, JAM, 28 Feb 1898 - 2 July 2011, 113 years and 124 days.

Rose Berman, UKR/USA, 17 Apr 1901 - 13 Jan 2012, 110 years and 271 days.

Anna Palarowska (Sr. Bernadette), POL/FRA, 22 Oct 1902 - 2 Nov 2013, 111 years and 11 days.

Carmela Callède, ITA/FRA, 29 Sept 1903 - 1 Oct 2013, 110 years and 2 days.

Hedy Wegier, GER/USA, 25 Oct 1903 - 12 May 2015, 111 years and 199 days.

Elisabeth Franke, GER, 10 Nov 1903 - 11 Aug 2014, 110 years and 274 days.

Margarete Dannheimer, GER, 28 Jan 1904 - 2 July 2015, 111 years and 155 days.

Ida Tallin, POL/USA, 25 Sept 1905 - 5 Aug 2016, 110 years and 315 days.

Apparently, there are also lots of new validations for "2019" and "2020," but those updates are for another day.

Recent validation, accepted on 18 March 2024:

Juana Cordero, PRI/USA, 19 May 1913 - 3 Feb 2024, 110 years and 260 days.

Recently announced validations, all retroactively accepted in "2019":

Mary Royster, USA, 15 Apr 1875 - 28 Dec 1989, 114 years and 257 days.

Arthur Nash, UK/CAN, 7 Jan 1885 - 4 Nov 1996, 111 years and 302 days.

Marta Canevaro Luza, CHL, 29 July 1889 - 13 Apr 2001, 111 years and 238 days.

Luis Quiroga Cassio, CHL, 23 Apr 1893 - 9 Aug 2003, 110 years and 108 days.

Jacinta Silva, URY, 15 May 1904 - 29 July 2016, 112 years and 75 days.

Antonia Maria Amore (Sister Mary Cecile), ITA/USA, 17 Feb 1905 - 18 Feb 2016, 111 years and 1 day.

Margherita Carossio, ITA/ARG, 10 Aug 1905 - 30 June 2017, 111 years and 324 days.

Delfina Begue San Martín, CHL, 20 Sept 1905 - 4 Feb 2016, 110 years and 137 days.

Gussie Wynne, USA, 17 Jan 1906 - 12 Aug 2016, 110 years and 208 days.

Belle McCormick, USA, 2 May 1906 - 1 Mar 2017, 110 years and 303 days.

Karen Egestad, DNK, 14 Sept 1908 - 16 May 2019, 110 years and 244 days.

Recently announced validations, all retroactively accepted in "2020":

Jožef Szuchár, SVK, 16 Feb 1857 - 11 Aug 1967, 110 years and 176 days.

Antonio Ardón Soto, CRI, 2 Sept 1888 - 3 Nov 1998, 110 years and 62 days.

Józsefné Szűcs, HUN, 28 Oct 1890 - 17 Dec 2000, 110 years and 50 days.

María Colón, PRI, 27 Apr 1891 - 28 Oct 2003, 112 years and 184 days.

Tino Vargas Pérez, CRI, 27 Sept 1896 - 20 Aug 2008, 111 years and 328 days.

Wenceslao Leyva González, MEX, 28 Sept 1903 - 27 Dec 2016, 113 years and 90 days.

Vi Malin, UK, 23 Mar 1906 - 18 Sept 2017, 111 years and 179 days.

Jeanne Lara, ESP/FRA, 1 Apr 1906 - 16 Oct 2019, 113 years and 198 days.

Domingo Villa Avisencio, MEX, 26 Aug 1906 - 3 Nov 2019, 113 years and 69 days.

Niko Dragoš, SVN, 27 Aug 1907 - 31 Mar 2018, 110 years and 216 days.

Dumitru Comănescu, ROU, 21 Nov 1908 - 27 June 2020, 111 years and 219 days.

Manuel Benavente Sanhueza, CHL, 25 Sept 1909 - 21 Mar 2021, 111 years and 177 days.

Recently announced validations, retroactively accepted in "2023":

Mauro Ambriz Tapia, MEX, 21 Nov 1897 - 18 Apr 2011, 113 years and 148 days.

Elisabeth Kimoff, MKD/CAN, 20 Nov 1904 - 15 Oct 2015, 110 years and 329 days ???

Blanca Luisa Cuitiño Barbier, URY, 25 Aug 1910 - 20 Mar 2022, 111 years and 207 days.

Please note the many errors the page for 2023 still contains.

@marco Is there a reason that you have doubts about Elisabeth Kimoff?

Posted by: @beaumont

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@marco Is there a reason that you have doubts about Elisabeth Kimoff?

The application was submitted by Dejan, who has forged documentation before. I am very doubtful about this case.

Recently announced validation, retroactively accepted on 29 October 2017:

Geralda Aloy, BRA, 27 Jan 1905 - 16 Sept 2015, 110 years and 232 days.

There's many more new "validations," most of them the same ones as recently validated LQ- and/or ESO-cases, with an acceptance date now conveniently and unsurprisingly predating the validation date of the latter two organisations. However, as I have other appointments right now, I'll list them at a later date.

Recently announced validations, all retroactively accepted in November and December 2017:

Elvira de Jesus Caldeira, PRT, 27 July 1886 - 5 June 1998, 111 years and 313 days.

Maria Rosalina do Carmo, PRT, 23 Jan 1902 - 21 Feb 2012, 110 years and 29 days.

Marie de Sousberghe (Sister Anne), BEL/UK, 7 Nov 1904 - 12 Feb 2016?, 111 years and 97 days?

Harold Bracher, UK, 30 Nov 1904 - 13 Apr 2016, 111 years and 135 days.

Madeleine Ragon, FRA, 27 Mar 1905 - 8 Mar 2017, 111 years and 346 days.

Shigeno Shiomi, JPN, 15 Apr 1905 - 7 Apr 2016, 110 years and 358 days.

Veronica Forstner, USA, 3 May 1905 - 29 Sept 2015, 110 years and 149 days.

Armida Sholar, USA, 9 Aug 1905 - 4 Apr 2017, 111 years and 238 days.

Mary Marsh, USA, 8 Oct 1905 - 4 Sept 2016, 110 years and 332 days.

Ellen Boenig, USA, 21 Oct 1905 - 16 Apr 2017, 111 years and 177 days.

Clelia Campolongo, ITA, 9 Jan 1906 - 2 Mar 2016, 110 years and 53 days.

Celina Fernández de Pacheco, CRI, 22 Jan 1906 - 16 Oct 2016, 110 years and 286 days.

Melissa Traylor, USA, 6 Feb 1906 - 18 Aug 2017, 111 years and 193 days.

Mary Niceswanger, USA, 6 Aug 1906 - 25 Jan 2018, 111 years and 172 days.

Francisca Castillo, CRI, 3 Nov 1906 - 20 Dec 2016, 110 years and 47 days.

Evelyn Folstrom, USA, 10 Nov 1906 - 22 Feb 2017, 110 years and 104 days.

[sarcasm]I am particularly impressed with their validation of Shigeno Shiomi.[/sarcasm] By the time of her validation in December 2017, she had been in limbo for well over a year. Her date of death was only discovered on 5 April 2018, yet the GRG has now apparently managed to validate her whilst being in limbo. [sarcasm]Miracle workers they must be.[/sarcasm]

The name Maria Rosalina do Carmo is not correct. Her official name was Maria do Carmo Fernandes, but she was called Maria Rosalina by everyone in her village. Rosalina was her mother's name. In other words, Maria Rosalina was just how she was known, it was a nickname, but it was not her official name.

The title of this thread should be changed to GRG - "Recent" Validations

Recently announced validations, retroactively accepted in January and February 2018. (In the list on the GRG website, there's also a validation missing for these two months.)

Disclaimer: I don't know what to think anymore of the quality of the 2018 retroactive validations, as there are blatant errors in quite a number of these validations, starting with a couple in the lot presented below. (The errors become even worse as the year progresses.)

Ginevra Donovan, USA, 16 July 1863 - 1 July 1974, 110 years and 350 days.

Lucy Reynolds, USA, 18 Oct 1872 - 14 July 1983, 110 years and 269 days.

Tillie Fredach, USA, 28 Feb 1882??? - 16 Mar 1993 - 111??? years and 16 days. [Except, NONE of the early-life evidence (1910 and before) suggests an 1882 year of birth; in my list I'll add her as an 1883 birth.]

Evelyn Smith, USA, 7 Nov 1888 - 14 Nov 1999, 111 years and 7 days.

Ellen Jurick, USA, 15 July 1895? - 13 July 2009, 113? years and 363 days. [I don't find the 1900 census a match that could or should be considered "beyond reasonable doubt," so I am sceptical about this validation.]

Perpetua von Mauntz, GER, 7 Mar 1896 - 30 Oct 2006, 110 years and 237 days.

Anna Huber, CHE, 5 Apr 1899 - 1 Sept 2009, 110 years and 149 days.

Jane Ising, GER/USA, 2 Feb 1902 - 2 Feb 2012, 110 years and 0 days.

Thereza Favali Pocay, BRA, 27 June 1904 - 20??? Oct 2014, 110 years and 115??? days. [This validation is what suprises me most; the GRG possesses evidence for her actual date of death, yet validates her with a blatantly wrong date of death. Why would it do that??? To make matters worse, it also misspells her name.]

Germaine Proulx, CAN, 26 Feb 1906 - 23 Oct 2016, 110 years and 240 days.

Bill Sheetz, USA, 17 May 1906 - 28 May 2016, 110 years and 11 days.

Yvonne Bouton, FRA, 24 June 1907 - 31 Aug 2017, 110 years and 68 days.

PS - adding a screenshot before these mistakes/errors mysteriously disappear.

Recently announced validations, retroactively accepted in February and March 2018.

Disclaimer: more blatant errors.

Martha Rein, GER/USA, 17 Aug 1874 - 6 Jan 1987, 112 years and 142 days.

Helen Obermayer, HUN/USA, 20 Jan 1879 - 20 Nov 1991, 112 years and 304 days.

John Post, USA, 7 June 1884 - 23 May 1995, 110 years and 350 days.

Julia Tyler, USA, 26 June 1888 - 25 Nov 1999, 111 years and 152 days.

Nola Cook, USA, 23 June 1891 - 13 Sept 2001, 110 years and 82 days.

Mitzi Brandes, SVK/GER, 11 Aug 1902 - 6 Feb 2013, 110 years and 179 days. [This validation was approved despite her having been married too short ago to have gained access to the marriage certificate (privacy laws).]

Lydia Åslund, SWE, 14 Nov 1902 - 19 Nov 2012, 110 years and 5 days.

Kathleen Russell, UK, 21 Dec 1903 - 20? Jan 2014, 110 years and 20? days. [Her date of death does not match the one as validated by ESO, and also doesn't match her age at death.]

Kiku Morita, JPN, 20 Oct 1905 - fl. 1 Jan 2016, 110 years. [This is an absolutely remarkable validation. Not only was the so-called date of death found after her date of validation - she was still in limbo in March 2018 - it was later also established that the identified date of death may have belonged to another Japanese supercentenarian in limbo; in other words, the 6 January 2016 date of death is by no means beyond reasonable doubt.]

Mary Jorden, LTH/USA, 1 Jan? 1907 - 1 Mar 2018, 111 years and 59? days. [I am quite sceptical about Mrs Jorden's DOB, as 1 Jan is often a placeholder and other cases for Lithuania, such as Lillian Norris, turned out to have different dates of birth from what was claimed.]

Madeline Anderson, NZL, 4 May 1907 - 19 June 2018, 111 years and 46 days. [She was validated whilst still being alive: a missed opportunity to have honoured and recognised her by placing her on the list of living supercentenarians back then.]

Ironically, to the cases with no issues, except for Julia Tyler, LQ and/or ESO researchers have also contributed, even though the GRG credits list will not (always completely) reflect this. Yet it's those organisations that the GRG deems unreliable and unscientific.

Posted by: @marco

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Recently announced validations, retroactively accepted in February and March 2018.

Disclaimer: more blatant errors.

 

Martha Rein, GER/USA, 17 Aug 1874 - 6 Jan 1987, 112 years and 142 days.

Helen Obermayer, HUN/USA, 20 Jan 1879 - 20 Nov 1991, 112 years and 304 days.

John Post, USA, 7 June 1884 - 23 May 1995, 110 years and 350 days.

Julia Tyler, USA, 26 June 1888 - 25 Nov 1999, 111 years and 152 days.

Nola Cook, USA, 23 June 1891 - 13 Sept 2001, 110 years and 82 days.

Mitzi Brandes, SVK/GER, 11 Aug 1902 - 6 Feb 2013, 110 years and 179 days. [This validation was approved despite her having been married too short ago to have gained access to the marriage certificate (privacy laws).]

Lydia Åslund, SWE, 14 Nov 1902 - 19 Nov 2012, 110 years and 5 days.

Kathleen Russell, UK, 21 Dec 1903 - 20? Jan 2014, 110 years and 20? days. [Her date of death does not match the one as validated by ESO, and also doesn't match her age at death.]

Kiku Morita, JPN, 20 Oct 1905 - fl. 1 Jan 2016, 110 years. [This is an absolutely remarkable validation. Not only was the so-called date of death found after her date of validation - she was still in limbo in March 2018 - it was later also established that the identified date of death may have belonged to another Japanese supercentenarian in limbo; in other words, the 6 January 2016 date of death is by no means beyond reasonable doubt.]

Mary Jorden, LTH/USA, 1 Jan? 1907 - 1 Mar 2018, 111 years and 59? days. [I am quite sceptical about Mrs Jorden's DOB, as 1 Jan is often a placeholder and other cases for Lithuania, such as Lillian Norris, turned out to have different dates of birth from what was claimed.]

Madeline Anderson, NZL, 4 May 1907 - 19 June 2018, 111 years and 46 days. [She was validated whilst still being alive: a missed opportunity to have honoured and recognised her by placing her on the list of living supercentenarians back then.]

 

Ironically, to the cases with no issues, except for Julia Tyler, LQ and/or ESO researchers have also contributed, even though the GRG credits list will not (always completely) reflect this. Yet it's those organisations that the GRG deems unreliable and unscientific.

Re: John Post: There's a real chance that he was born in 1885--or even 1883--instead. His SC status is not clear beyond any doubt. His 1900 US Census says June 1884 and thus 1905 NJ Census can imply either June 1884 or June 1885 depending on age rounding (it was taken shortly before his birthday, I think), but some other documents either give or imply either June 1885 or June 1883 for him. Without anything for him from before 1900, we simply can't be sure of his SC status. Maybe he should nevertheless be verified based on a preponderance of evidence, but if so, then why not Leora Franklin Sparrow as well, who has 1898, 1899, and 1900 (and 1903) school census entries explicitly in support of a December 1886 birth for her?

Posted by: @marco

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Kiku Morita, JPN, 20 Oct 1905 - fl. 1 Jan 2016, 110 years. [This is an absolutely remarkable validation. Not only was the so-called date of death found after her date of validation - she was still in limbo in March 2018 - it was later also established that the identified date of death may have belonged to another Japanese supercentenarian in limbo; in other words, the 6 January 2016 date of death is by no means beyond reasonable doubt.]

I'm not sure I understand this one. So she may have still been alive in March 2018?

Posted by: @sailor-haumea

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Posted by: @marco

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Recently announced validations + one recent validation:

Emma Galode, CAN, 22 Aug 1882 - 9 Sept 1994, 112 years and 18 days.

Nels Berger, NOR/USA, 20 Oct 1885 - 22 Sept 1996, 110 years and 338 days.

Sara Camarena, MEX/USA, 16 July 1891??? - 20 June 2005, 113??? years and 339 days. *

Henrietta Bruce, BRB, 18 July 1891 - 21 July 2001, 110 years and 3 days.

Emma Jefferies, USA, 11 Aug 1899 - 20 Aug 2011, 112 years and 9 days.

Hilda Clulow, UK, 15 Mar 1908 - 24 Dec 2019, 111 years and 284 days.

Florence Sutton, UK, 20 Mar 1909 - 29 Jan 2020, 110 years and 315 days.

Maud Nicholl, UK, 3 July 1909 - 19 Sept 2019, 110 years and 78 days.

 

* The following is from the announcement of this particular validation, the most interesting part of which has been highlighted in bold:

The Gerontology Research Group is excited to announce the validation of Secundina Camarena, nee Nieves, known as Sara. Sara was born in San Jose, Tayahua, Zacatecas, Mexico, on July 16th 1891 (claimed 1904) to Victoriano and Tomasa Nieves, baptised 12 days later on the 28th.
Interestingly, when Sara married Gregoriao Camarena on June 1st 1921, Sara started to understate her age. We believe this was possibly because her husband was 9 years her junior, being born in 1900, she wanted to avoid social stigma from this. Also, going on to have children, this would help keep the appearance of not being an ‘older mother’ which can be frowned upon in some cultures. Whilst this cannot be confirmed, as such, this seems the most likely reason. They had at least eight children together.
In 1928, Sara moved to the US, settling in Fresno, Fresno County, California. Sara was sadly widowed in 2001, when Gregorio passed away at age 100. They had been married for 80 years. Sara continued to live in Fresno after her husband’s death, until her own death on June 20th 2005, aged 113 years, 339 days. She was just 26 days from her 114th birthday.
Whilst this lady’s case was never a publicly known one, we have the Social Security Administration Study to thank for her validation. Initially, some years ago, this case had been added to our ‘debunked’ list based on her obituary claim of being ‘only’ 100 years of age at death. However, on re-examination last year, it was discovered through evidence gathered, that she was indeed the age claimed on her Social Security correspondence. Therefore, Sara was verified by myself and the SSA study and accepted as validated by the GRG on January 8th 2024.

I am familiar with Camarena's case. I think that there's certainly a reasonable chance of her being 113, but it's far too murky to consider her validated at the moment, in my opinion. This validation is a bit hasty and I believe more evidence needs to be gathered, such as a family tree reconstruction. 

We have been able to find birth and/or baptismal records for a lot of her siblings, which is why if a sibling identity switch occurred, it had to have been her younger sister Carolina, around 1.5 years younger. But what would be the incentive for such an identity switch?

All of the other female siblings for Secundina have paper trails for them after 1921 (which is when Secundina got married and apparently began significantly deflating her age), indicating that they could not have stolen Secundina's identity--right?

After the recent GRG antics I have decided to recheck their validations for 2015-2018 that I had added to my personal lists, cross-referencing their validations with research performed by more reliable researchers, and I have decided to make the following changes:

- I have removed the validation of Ida Stewart (a SC with incomplete documentation, and the documentation that does exist is too inconsistent);

- I have lowered Ruth Brown-Stamps and Roberta Brittain's ages with one year (YOB from 1896 to 1897) due to inconsistent early-life evidence, going for the more conservative YOB;

- I have removed the validations of Jessie Lemon (1898-2008, no proof of name change) and Rosa Brown (1899-2009, no 1900 census available) due to documentation lacking.

I will also go over the more recent validation years and remove doubtful validations from those.

Thanks for your efforts here Marco - and such a pity it has become necessary.

Always sad to lose someone as old as Ida Stewart.

I'm not saying she's not the age claimed by the GRG. I'm only saying the gathered evidence (birth cert, marriage cert, other docs) does not support one conclusive age, especially considering she claimed to be much older than what the oldest document (birth cert) supports. In addition, you also wish to rule out an identity swap, so a family tree should be completed as well before considering her age formally verified and subsequently validated.

Understood - but the validation was premature at best.

The GRG has now verified both James King (1854-1967) and Ernest Peronneau (1902-2014; already LQ-verified):

https://www.grg-supercentenarians.org/2019-validations/

https://www.grg-supercentenarians.org/2020-validations/

This wasn't mentioned anywhere yet--was it?

@futurist they have validated a hundred cases in the last month - eg Henry Tseng, Wash Wesley. Nobody has been keeping track for the reasons outlined in the latest thread

Posted by: @musicotic

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@futurist they have validated a hundred cases in the last month - eg Henry Tseng, Wash Wesley. Nobody has been keeping track for the reasons outlined in the latest thread

I wonder specifically which documentation was used to verify Wash Wesley. There was a plausible 1910 US Census entry for Wash that I found (under the name George Warren, IIRC--his mom married a guy with the last name of Warren in or around 1893), but I couldn't definitively connect it to our own Wash Wesley without more evidence, such as family tree reconstruction.

Henry Tseng I would presume was verified with the help of his koseki record from Japan? He's of Chinese/Taiwanese descent but was born in Japan, IIRC.

Posted by: @marco

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I'm not saying she's not the age claimed by the GRG. I'm only saying the gathered evidence (birth cert, marriage cert, other docs) does not support one conclusive age, especially considering she claimed to be much older than what the oldest document (birth cert) supports. In addition, you also wish to rule out an identity swap, so a family tree should be completed as well before considering her age formally verified and subsequently validated.

Out of curiosity: Marco, would you have personally verified James Monroe King (1854-1967) based on the evidence that we currently have for him just like the GRG did? Or would you have insisted on a definitive 1860 US Census entry beforehand?

It’s worth noting Futurist that this thread no longer keeps track of GRG validations … for a few reasons, some of which include, the notable lapse in the quality and accuracy of validations being completed.

Posted by: @futurist

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Posted by: @musicotic

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@futurist they have validated a hundred cases in the last month - eg Henry Tseng, Wash Wesley. Nobody has been keeping track for the reasons outlined in the latest thread

Henry Tseng I would presume was verified with the help of his koseki record from Japan? He's of Chinese/Taiwanese descent but was born in Japan, IIRC.

 

I don't believe so. One of the validators in his case is listed as MHLW Japan. As far as I know, they do not validate the ages of Japanese nationals in foreign countries. Additionally, they do not publicly reveal information about Japanese SCs in other countries in their September updates (Respect for the Aged Day / Keirō no Hi), as they probably don't even have that information.

So, how exactly was the MHLW involved in this validation, if at all...?