Picture from Mr. Otilio's 112th Birthday last year in June 2022

Posted by: @aq

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Picture from Mr. Otilio's 112th Birthday last year in June 2022

Of the currently undocumented male claims from 1910, he's definitely the most likely to be true. Nobody has been able to find the records for his birth or baptism yet, despite knowing his parents' names and place of birth. If his family knew where he was baptized, it would help us out a lot.  

Would it be alright to ask his great granddaughter if she knows where his baptismal location was? We've spoken before on Facebook, but I'm not sure if the question would be too personal. 

@aquanaut_chalk They should be asked, it's nothing controversial, they should also be explained the validation process in a little more detail so they know what it's all about.

If one's documents are not available online, it has nothing to do with reality and one's age is not fake because of that. I don't want to participate in the investigation of this case but I can only give advice, so some people think that someone's age is questionable just because someone's documents are not available online, that again I say has nothing to do with reality...

In this case, the priority is to find out the exact place of birth registration or place of baptism...

I just sent a message via Facebook to Otilio's granddaughter, congratulating him on his 113th birthday tomorrow. I hope he is well. I'll let you know what her response is, and if there's any new photos of him.

If Otilio can get validated soon and Juan, Eusebio and Efrain all stay alive long enough, that would be FOUR validated 113+ year old men from Latin America.

@rutzqwezex that would be insanely cool! I'm about 99½% sure Otilio is the age claimed. I really hope he can get validated soon. I been talking to his grandchildren on Facebook and trying to help them get Otilio validated.

Posted by: @aq

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I'm about 99½% sure Otilio is the age claimed

What do you base this on exactly?

@rutzqwezex welcome to the forum (I have noticed this is your 1st post here)! I am Ale76 from Genoa (ITA).

Happy Birthday, Mr. Otilio (whatever age you are)!

@024tomi to be honest a lot of people on here, the110club, and the dlf say he's the most likely to be the age claimed. The people who said this are very credible people, so I believe them when they said he's likely 113. I've spoken with his great granddaughter on Facebook who attests that she has documentation confirming that he's 113. If I remember correctly he also had a baptismal certificate stating that he was born on 15 June, 1910 (although that part my memory is a bit fuzzy on). He also has no evidence against him, and he was researched thoroughly by several different people. I know he's not validated, or fully documented, but I think he might be partially documented. I've seen younger photos of Otilio and I can tell you he looks the age claimed in his younger years, so this would match up perfectly with him being 113 now.

EDIT: Whoops my mistake. I re read the texts and it turns out he doesn't have a baptismal certificate. There were people looking for it. (I believe Santiago was one of them) But as of right now, no baptismal certificate has been located for him yet. My apologies. 

@aquanaut_chalk It's been several times that I see you saying things like "I believe / I think / If I could guess / I'm pretty sure that this person is XXX years old". You have to understand that age validation doesn't work with intuition but proofs. At a minimum, you can guess based on fact, but it seems that you are not relying on any factual element here.

You should also know that in science, it's up to the person who asserts to provide the proof. The absence of a document invalidating the claimed age is in no way a proof. A document confirming the claimed age would be one.

Should be rename this thread to Otilio Dominguez Santos (MEX) - 113? (instead of 112, that was last year).

If his age was correct he would have been verified by now, considering we have experienced researchers from Latin America who could verify his age by now, but it looks like it will never be validated because there is a possibility that he is in the birth register registered later and that is only document for him, a recent copy of a birth certificate from late middle life issued on the basis of two witnesses. As time passes, doubt about his age grows.

@guillaume I agree. It's just hard remembering which SCs are validated, which ones are documented and partially documented, and which ones are unvalidated. Plus, every one is unique in terms of like what documentation they have like birth certificates and baptismal records and stuff. I'll try harder to rely more on factual evidence. A lot of people seem to claim to have "proof" of their claimed age, but when said proof is asked for, then turns up nothing. I'll try to stop just going by what relatives of SCs say before I see any proof. 

- AC

@dejan why does doubt about his age grow? I can ask his great granddaughter about other records he may have if that would help?

@aquanaut_chalk It is not worth it when they are all recent copies of documents that will not be accepted by LQ or GRG. A full baptismal place is needed so that online document researchers can debunk or validate his age...

Posted by: @dejan

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Should be rename this thread to Otilio Dominguez Santos (MEX) - 113? (instead of 112, that was last year).

If his age was correct he would have been verified by now, considering we have experienced researchers from Latin America who could verify his age by now, but it looks like it will never be validated because there is a possibility that he is in the birth register registered later and that is only document for him, a recent copy of a birth certificate from late middle life issued on the basis of two witnesses. As time passes, doubt about his age grows.

Why do you think that a delayed birth record is the only documentation he has? You're forgetting about baptismal records, which is generally the most reliable form of supercentenarian early life documentation in Latin America. If we only relied on birth records for verifying SCs, then we would have zero validated supercentenarians from Colombia (a country which didn't have birth registration 110+ years ago), so you can imagine that a large percentage of cases don't have birth records.

We haven't been able to verify his age because we don't know which church he was baptized in, and that in and of itself doesn't necessarily make his age doubtful - it just means that more research is needed. 

@dejan that's very true. You can't just have recent copies, because it's not the original thing. I don't think that it makes his case more doubtful though, but it definitely doesn't support it. I think right now Otilio's case is at a standstill until, exactly how you put it, a full baptismal record is needed so people can either validate or debunk his case. I know someone on here found a baptismal record of Otilio's brother from 1904. Does anyone know when his parents/other siblings were born?

@mendocino Just like that, the main proof was the baptismal record, and the birth could be registered 50 years later if needed. If the baptismal certificate confirms the requested date of birth, then more recent copies of documents owned by his family can be taken into account. Only the full place and name of the church where he was baptized is required. Certain family members (if they are one asked about it) may hide this information because they may know something that we do not and are afraid of being debunked. Is it possible for a person not to know where he was baptized, it is necessary to ask him while he is still conscious, "hey, do you know where you were baptized", it is necessary to explain in such a way...

@aquanaut_chalk , @mendocino,

His other grandson has now responded to my comment:

Translation:
my grandfather was not born in Cuautla Morelos Mexico, he was born in the state of Veracruz, and for us it is not necessary to clarify his age to anyone, we are grateful to God and life for letting him live 113 years and with God's favor there will be many more.

Short and clear, he pretends not to know where he was baptized, maybe he really doesn't.

@dejan I'm just going to bring up the case of a certain SC man from Costa Rica who is turning a claimed age of 116 next month. I found it very odd that his family claimed to have proof, but when I told them that they could post it here and it is free to apply for the Guinness World Record, then I stopped hearing from them. I totally agree that they might know something we don't and won't tell us for fear that they could be debunked.

With a heavy and crushed heart, I'd like to announce that Otilio Dominguez Santos sadly passed away yesterday at the claimed age of 113 years & 188 days. May he R.I.P. 

Rest in Peace, Mr. Dominguez Santos

Very sad news to hear.

Rest in Peace Mr Dominguez Santos.