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28/02/2024 11:17 pm
Just thought I'd throw this out there:
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Evidence that supports a 120 year old Shigechiyo Izumi:
- He has clear memories of the early 1870s, that he gave in an account.
- Census record of 1871 supports his claimed age.
- His parents died around 1871/1872, so that totally debunks people's theory on how our 1880-born Izumi was a younger brother.
- He worked as an animal goader at a sugar mill from 1872-1970, meaning he couldn't have been much younger than the age claimed. (While evidence shows he did retire in 1970, there's no proof he actually started working there in 1872).
- Documents (I believe they were military but I cannot remember, my apologies), and a census record from 1889 supports his claimed age.
- Retirement documents from 1970 support his claimed age.
- Interviews conducted between 1977-1986 all have consistent information on him.
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Evidence that discourages a 120 year old Shigechiyo Izumi:
- No death certificate ever found for our 2nd 1880-born Shigechiyo Izumi.
- No physical evidence of him ACTUALLY beginning work at the sugar mill in 1872. He could've gotten 1872 mixed up with a later date, such as 1892.
- As far as I am aware, there is a huge gap of 81 years, from 1889-1970, where there are no records of him. (I am not sure if his marriage records were ever found, but if they do exist, it may help here.)
- At the time of his death, he would've been an outlier by 8 years & 35 days, which is extremely unlikely. (However, Jeanne Calment was an outlier by 7 years & 85 days...)
- He would still be an outlier by 4 years & 8 days. (Again, Jeanne Calment is still an outlier by 3 years & 57 days)
My observation:
- I think it's entirely possible that our 1880-born Izumi died as an infant, and that's why no death certificate was ever found for him, because his parents never registered one. If this is true, than our 1865-born Izumi was indeed the real deal. However, the opposite could have happened where our 1865-born Izumi died as an infant and our 1880-born Izumi accidentally got his records mixed up with the 1865 one. Each scenario would explain our one and only 1986 death certificate. I think he's about 30% likely to be true. Just my thoughts.
Edit: Edited spacing
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diego reacted
28/02/2024 11:38 pm
I donโt think that one will be making a comeback to be fair. It would need an extraordinary finding(s).
It was also verified back at a time when we had no real database that supported how old the โvery oldest cohortโ of humans can actually achieve.
Today we know thatโs circa 111-114 for men with 3 outliers in the 115-116.15 band. It was lower during Izumiโs lifetime.
I know there is โthe Calmentโ factor on the female side of longevity, but comparatively speaking, 120-237 is a bigger achievement for a male than 122-164 is for a female.
Topic starter
29/02/2024 4:40 pm
@chrisr I would totally agree. I think it would be unlikely foe Izumi to make a comeback. Unfortunately the statistics are not at all in his favor. I think we would need complete documentation that without a doubt, him and the 1880-born Izumi were different people, and records proving his claims (like working at a sugar mill for 98 years) are indeed true and not caused by a mixed up memory.
|Male| ๐ฎGamer๐ฎ > ๐Fashion Lover๐ > ๐ถChore Motivator๐ถ
Favorite Male SC: Juan Vicente Pรฉrez Mora
Favorite Female SCs: Lucile Randon & Kane Tanaka
๐And the kind of guy that's always down to chat๐
29/02/2024 5:56 pm
In some countries one gave the same given name to boys in a family for two times at the same time. I mean the two brothers, for example Hans and Hans or Heinrich and Heinrich, were living at the same time. One was was hoping that at least one of them would reach adulthood.
In Germany, Swiss or Austria in former centuries. Especially very often in the middle ages. Less lateron until about 1850.
Perhaps somebody of us knows about the situation in Japan according to this fact???
Aquanaut reacted
29/02/2024 8:39 pm
In times when infant mortality was much higher than today, a new child was, at times given the same name as an older one who had recently passed away.
Though numerous reasons existed, it was also considered in some cultures to help slightly with the grieving process, for the one who had been lost.
diego reacted
