LAS Member/Administrator (since January 2020)
ESO Correspondent for Croatia (since 2 August 2021)
I eagerly await when some Haitian cases with mid-life but no online early-life documentation have their early-life documentation uploaded to FamilySearch, and LQ validates them, and then the GRG presents fake retroactive validation dates from several years ago.
Will they have the nerve to give a fake validation date to, say, Duranord Veillard if/when he gets validated by LQ if his baptismal record ever gets uploaded?
Thanks, S. for sharing this important info.
http://www.supercentenariditalia.it/persone-viventi-piu-longeve-in-italia.
Persone viventi più longeve in Italia – Supercentenari d'Italia (supercentenariditalia.it)
I’ll raise this with Ben.
Diabolical conduct.
I wouldn’t take their legal threats too seriously to be fair.
Look at this. They have reserved spots on their 2022 validations list every three days
In fact, if you go to any recent year there are validations every three days (except 2024 where there is one every day)
The GRG is making it so incredibly obvious for us now
Also they validated Matsu Gaja (with a younger birthdate than claimed) and Shige Mineshiba. Yumi Yamamoto said after Gaja's death that the GRG and LQ would not publicly release her validation...
They are not even trying to hide it.
LAS Member/Administrator (since January 2020)
ESO Correspondent for Croatia (since 2 August 2021)
Disgraceful.
http://www.supercentenariditalia.it/persone-viventi-piu-longeve-in-italia.
Persone viventi più longeve in Italia – Supercentenari d'Italia (supercentenariditalia.it)
First of all, seto2001, thank you for your elaborate post. As much as it pains me to say, I have to agree that there's a lot of truth to what you have analysed. Despite my resignation a couple of years ago and the ensuing witchhunt by some - but mostly one - of the remaining GRG members, I always hoped the best for the GRG, and genuinely wanted it to find solutions to its existing problems, in order to return to its former glory. However, in these past few months, but accelerated in these last couple of weeks, I have unfortunately had to come to the sad realisation that the GRG is no more, and that Robert's grip on the organisation - as he would NEVER have allowed for any of this nonsense - is no longer apparent/existent. I know others arrived at this conclusion much more quickly than I did, but hope had got the better of me.
As mentioned, the situation has become really dire in these last few weeks. Apart from obvious cases such as Rosalia Hasenkamf (there isn't even early-life evidence to begin with) and Daisy Cammock-Bennett (indeed, no official confirmation of her date of death), they have also attributed "dates of death" to limbo cases such as Hildegard Lange Kamada Shimabukuro. However, none of those dates of death have been confirmed. Yet, oddly enough, for limbo cases whose dates of death HAVE been confirmed, such as Tameko Shijo, they refuse to show/publish it.
And they don't just try to "beat" LQ. The ESO discovered Maria d'Almeida's date of death back in 2021 by going through the trouble of contacting the Portuguese authorities. I am confident we were the first organisation to discover her date of death, as it had definitely not yet been found by the GRG when I left in 2020, and there was no (active) Portuguese correspondent by then. Obviously, the GRG could have made an effort since then - although I doubt it - but to say the evidence was located in or before 2018 by Filipe Prista Lucas - who was not even active anymore by the time I began helping out the GRG in late 2012 - is unscientific, especially because the GRG has her name wrong and is now suggesting Filipe Prista Lucas has made this error.
This tactic they have applied to other longstanding pending cases as well. Suddenly, all these formerly skipped pending cases - such as Marjorie Macgown, Ingeborg Mestad, Pearl Lutzko, Gloriam Bellerive-Hébert, Yvonne Lamoureux, and Arie Jane Robinson, just to mention a few - have been rushed through the validation process, even though their documentation was still far from complete in 2020 and will likely still be incomplete by now. Marjorie Macgown's case, for instance, was completed by Andrew in late 2020, and with strenuous efforts. I sincerely doubt, looking at who's left the GRG, the GRG has the skillset to perform the kind of validation that Andrew's performed in order to complete this case. For Pearl Lutzko, only ONE document - and a weak one at it - was known by the time I left in 2020, and I don't think much effort has been made to complete this case. Gloriam Bellerive-Hébert and Yvonne Lamoureux were missing mid-life documentation [i.e. proof of name change] and it's difficult to obtain this for Canadian cases, especially if you don't have the right contacts.
But, I suppose, the tipping point for me is the more recent validations of Leny Mackenbach and Ebe Tosi. Leny Mackenbach's case CANNOT be completed before 2025, for the simple fact that this documentation will only be made available by authorities for over a year after her death. She was unmarried, so mid-life evidence is lacking, and this becomes available once I [or anyone else] can apply for that documentation on 1 January 2025. Yet the GRG validated her "back in 2023." Impossible. And for Ebe Tosi, the GRG hasn't even bothered to obtain her birth certificate, which unequivocally states her date of birth as "14 July 1913." They simply followed her claim of 11 July 1913, assuming this would be reliable as she was born in Italy. (But sometimes, like with Arturo Licata, the evidence showed the claim was incorrect...)
All in all, it's taken me a long time to accept, but I can no longer trust GRG data. I should probably even remove some of the GRG validations from my list of "validated supercentenarians."
Overduidelijk misschien.
First of all, seto2001, thank you for your elaborate post. As much as it pains me to say, I have to agree that there's a lot of truth to what you have analysed. Despite my resignation a couple of years ago and the ensuing witchhunt by some - but mostly one - of the remaining GRG members, I always hoped the best for the GRG, and genuinely wanted it to find solutions to its existing problems, in order to return to its former glory. However, in these past few months, but accelerated in these last couple of weeks, I have unfortunately had to come to the sad realisation that the GRG is no more, and that Robert's grip on the organisation - as he would NEVER have allowed for any of this nonsense - is no longer apparent/existent. I know others arrived at this conclusion much more quickly than I did, but hope had got the better of me.
Inasmuch as Robert certainly never rushed validations, it's important to note that he was a bully and also complicit in much of this farce. I'm not sure an organisation with a power-mad bully in charge that presents three validations a year is really much of an improvement.
Inasmuch as Robert certainly never rushed validations, it's important to note that he was a bully and also complicit in much of this farce. I'm not sure an organisation with a power-mad bully in charge that presents three validations a year is really much of an improvement.
True. You'd almost forget that in all the consternation.
Overduidelijk misschien.
@ell I would totally agree.
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Seki Yoshida is now validated with a retroactive date of 8 November 2022, before she was publicly known
Although it's pointless to bother mentioning this anymore
LAS Member/Administrator (since January 2020)
ESO Correspondent for Croatia (since 2 August 2021)
@seto2001 Thanks for sharing this post!
http://www.supercentenariditalia.it/persone-viventi-piu-longeve-in-italia.
Persone viventi più longeve in Italia – Supercentenari d'Italia (supercentenariditalia.it)
Thank you for addressing all of this questionable GRG-behaviour. If all of this indeed turns out to be the case, it's mind-boggling how a once respected and respectable organisation has resorted to these strategies.
Overduidelijk misschien.